• hunter

    What do Norway, Iceland, France, Switzerland and Sweden have in common? Two things: 1) they are extremely wealthy and highly developed. 2) they generate most of their energy from non-CO2 emitting sources.

    Think on that, you braindead moron, when you argue that economic growth somehow cannot happen unless a particular gas is emitted in the process of energy generation.

  • stan

    Warren,

    “Think on that, environmentalists”

    Make up your mind. Do you want them to be environmentalists or do you want them to think?

    Hunter,

    Ummm. You sure you want to throw that one out there? With an argument like that, you might want to hold off on the insults.

  • AnonyMoose

    Even the Kyoto Protocol and its parent document, the UN FCCC recognize that “economic and social development and poverty eradication are the first and overriding priorities of the developing country Parties”

  • Balazs

    France generates most of its electricity from nuclear power. Switzerland, Norway and Sweden has way more hydropower than most nations on this planet. I can’t find if the share if non-CO2 emitting energy sources of these countries only apply for the electricity production or indeed for the entire energy use, but all these countries are among the ones in Europe, which have high per capita energy use (close to US and Canada).
    Renewables are not going to replace fossil fuels any time soon. The problem is not only the energy source, but storage. GM’s new prototype the Volt is really telling in this regard. The Volt can go 40 miles on battery. To make the car to go another another few hundred miles is achieved by putting in an entire combustion engine and a gas tank.
    Even if battery technology could catch up in terms of the energy density of a tank of gasoline ( 34MJ/L) recharging in the customary five minutes will be challenging (34MJ/L times 40L divided by 5 minutes, which is the typical fuel tank of an economy car = 246KW). So one would need to hold a ~250KW power-line, which does not look healthy.
    Climate change skeptics might be morons, but alarmist are naive at best.

  • Tilde Guillemet

    The rich clean countries remain so because they exploit the dirty countries for all they are worth. It is the new-age imperialism.

    – Rich countries export their CO2 production (+++) to poor countries
    – Rich countries export unwanted jobs to poor countries
    – Rich countries export death to poor countries by raising food prices
    – Rich countries justify themselves by showing how much better they are than poor countries

  • John

    Hunter still finds it impossible to make a case without accompanying insults. Funny how the pro-AGW crowd are becoming more emotionally attached to their arguments and less rational about how they make them.

  • Tom Nally

    – Rich countries export their CO2 production (+++) to poor countries

    CO2 is part of a waste stream. We’re exporting it? Who’s buying it? Are we capturing it in pressurized steel containers and marketing it in six-packs? (Is there a “Lite” version, too?) What are the poor countries doing with this waste stream?

    – Rich countries export unwanted jobs to poor countries

    Well, sure. Any product or service that can be purchased cheaper elsewhere will be purchased cheaper elsewhere, regardless of any one person’s sentimentalities. You don’t think everything you touch is domestically made, do you? Do you think all the components of your domestic car are domestically made? Do you think your clothes were made with domestic sewing machines, assembled from all domestic parts? Have you ever owned a Sony or Panasonic or Hitachi or Samsung electronic device? Where do you think it was made? Have you ever purchased a toy for a brother, sister, niece or nephew?

    – Rich countries export death to poor countries by raising food prices

    Why would a poor country purchase imported food which is more expensive than their own natively produced food? If the imported food is actually cheaper than their natively produced food, shouldn’t they be rejoicing?

    – Rich countries justify themselves by showing how much better they are than poor countries

    Productivity is productivity. It stands on it’s own without self-promotion.

    Consider Usain Bolt. He doesn’t need to “show how much better he is”. His deeds are self-evident. Should we ask him to slow down because it would make us feel better?

    —Tom Nally

  • Tilde Guillemet

    Re Tom Nally:

    Hmmm. Not sure if this is a troll, disingenuous, or a simple lack of understanding. But I’ll explain anyway.

    “export their CO2 production (+++) to poor countries” means rich countries don’t produce CO2 from their manufacturing. They get poor countries to do their manufacturing for them and in doing so produce a lot more CO2 than if done in the efficient green rich country.

    “Rich countries export unwanted jobs to poor countries” Means that things like manufacturing or waste recycling are passed over to poor countries because they are cheap – despite being dirty and inefficient. In the mean time rich countries devote themselves to the finer things in life such as blogging.

    “Rich countries export death to poor countries by raising food prices” World food prices have doubled in the past few years, not least because large amounts of Western agriculture have been converted to biofuel production. Your prius running on blended biofuel for a year has probably removed the wheat production to feed a dozen third world families for a year.

    “Rich countries justify themselves by showing how much better they are than poor countries” Self evident. e.g. Clean Green Denmark with all its wind power wants third world countries to be like them. Not the other way around. At the same time they want China to stop growing and fume incessantly about “a new Chinese coal fired power station every two weeks” All at the same time as importing more and more goods from China because they are cheap. Go to Start and collect 200 emissions trading credits.

  • kuhnkat

    Guys,

    the more CO2 the better up to a few thousand ppm!!!

    It is not the CO2 but the real toxics that KILL or MAIM humans, plants, and other animals along with ACTUALLY polluting oceans and waterways!!!

    Things like heavy metals, CO…