Mann’s got an interesting problem. His various hockey sticks show incredibly low temperature variability until about 1850 or so. But his and his counterparts models assume the climate temperature system is dominated by very high positive feedbacks that multiply even tiny changes to forcings into large temperature swings. These two points of view are extraordinarily hard to reconcile.
Similarly, climate alarmists assume that some sort of natural phenomenon is hiding or masking warming for the last decade. Given their forecasts, this has to be a pretty muscular phenomenon, but at the same time they have to argue that natural factors are not muscular enough to have cause much or any of the temperature increases in the 1980s and 1990s.
The ability to handle cognitive dissonance is important in climate science.
“The ability to handle cognitive dissonance is important in climate science.”
How about telling everyone if they don’t believe in AGW, they are the same as Holocaust deniers. Al Gore claiming that fighting global warming is the moral imperative of our time. THAT’S cognitive dissonance!! The realities of the Holocaust are irrefutatble and people rarely want to be thought of as immoral. So to be compared to a denier or told they are immoral creates a huge dissonance in the average, weak-minded individual. People who aren’t intelligent enough to research the scientific facts for themselves take it on blind faith simply to reconcile the dissonance. The brainwashing of an eco-army on a global scale.
P.T. Barnum would be proud.
MrC
“His various hockey sticks show incredibly low temperature variability until about 1850 or so. But his and his counterparts models assume the climate temperature system is dominated by very high positive feedbacks that multiply even tiny changes to forcings into large temperature swings. These two points of view are extraordinarily hard to reconcile.”
Due to feedback we *know* that Polar Bears would all have died out if the MWP really existed. But they didn’t die out so there’s no way the MWP really happened. If Greenland was ever really green such feedbacks would have melted it in a few days and flooded the world. We know that only happened once, as described in the Bible.
The prime Minister of Australia has a CD problem . . . his government is about to fall. ClimateGate claims the first government.
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/its_abbott/
Cool. . .
re Mr Cannuckistan. Stop dissing ordinary people – they are not sheep, a mistake the alarmists are making, a trap which the “the great and the good” have fallen into again and again throughout history. Ordinary people don’t do the research the science because they have families to feed and lives to live. They rely on you to do the research for them and they will recognise the truth if you show it to them fair and square. Remember, while you lot are busy researching we “weak-minded” lot are keeping the roads open and making sure that your coffee machine is still working! A bit of humility please!
You have to be really retarded to write this shit time and time again. There is no contradiction at all, and it really only takes a very puny intellect to grasp this. Small forcings = small temperature changes. Simple as that.
Why do you assume that anyone assumes anything about natural influences? Because you’re too mentally backward to understand what the data is telling us. The last decade has been the warmest decade in the instrumental record.
The inability to understand ridiculously simple notions is important in denialism.
Hunter, your tone is regretable.
Instrumental record? you mean the stevenson boxes? the ones that have had freeways built alongside them? the ones in carparks? the ones with aircon ducts near them? the ones that have had next to no maintanence with clogged up grates? or the ones located at ever growing international airports?
Or do you mean sattelite SST records, the ones that don’t allow for sea surface disturbances like breezes and gales?
Or do you mean the data from BoM’s of Australia New Zealand and USA that were “fudged”?
Puny intellects accept what they are told verbatim, real intellects question what they are told, especially when something smells fishy in Denmark
I think perhaps hunted is speaking of the data which michael ‘Meltdown’ mann turned upside-down to hide the Mideival Warm Period.
But he could be speaking about any of a score or more fraudulent attempts to make it look like there is ‘man-made’ global warming. Hard to be certain.
Of course, the fact that Hunter has never responded to any questions or requests for his supposed airtight evidence with anything but pointless vitriol should be overlooked.
It saddens me to think that Freud was right, but I’m thinking Hunter’s entire persona could be worked out with a ruler and asking him to drop his pants.
Question:
When global warmers appeal to feedback to enhance the warming supposedly caused by CO2, is it driven by the temperature increase alone or are they claiming a synergistic effect with CO2? If it’s temperature alone, why hasn’t feedback roasted the earth before any of the known ice-ages?
The real problem with the AWG debate is that there are millions of small minded Hunters running around speaking with authority on subjects they refuse to personally investigate and study, but they have morphed AWG into some new secular religion. Just as most religious faithful refuse to investigate the origins of their religion or consider the possibility that God does not exist (or certainly that there is not one tangible shred of evidence that God exists), the Warmists, like Hunter, can’t comprehend a world not on the brink of destruction and are willing to accept the ravings of Mann, Gore, Trenbreth and the like. In a different era, these men would have been burning witches at the stake or purging unfit literature from libraries. How did it come to this?
By the way Hunter, my wife spent 28 years teaching special education high school kids. Your use of the term “retarded” as a pejorative is churlish, immature and ignorant. Much like your understanding of the climate change debate.
Here is a reporter from Vancouver this is what he says:
http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/feeltheheat/archive/2009/12/01/scientist-at-centre-of-email-storm-steps-aside.aspx
“But even if the CRU data was manipulated – and there is no proof of that yet – it has been duplicated by two other independent agencies, The National Climatic Data Center of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration and NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies.”
Hey just move the goal posts whenever you have too.
In the 1980s ozone depletion was the big bad wolf. It promoted a huge industry.
In the 1990s the Black Forest was going to be dead in a year – check the relevent tourism websites to see how true that was.
In 1999 the world was going to come to an end due to the Y2K computer failures – what a lot of hot air that proved to be.
Now it is CO2 – well, people, it is what we alll breate out and the trees breathe in.
MEMO TO ALARMISTS: Please explain (i) how the great ice age ended and (ii) why Greenland had horticulture circa 1000 – 1100 AD? NATURAL global warming CYCLE people. Nothing to do with power stations and cars surely. The climate is and always has been cyclical.
Nobody is suggesting that reducing emissions and pollution, and the use of natural resources is not a good thing for many other reasons.
Can anyone answer this – it seems that there was a hell of a lot of burning and pollution and poorly controlled industry during the years 1939-1945 – just about the whole world was aflame. Did this result in catastrophic warming in the 1940s? My understanding was that this was a particularly cold period. Maybe that, to quote Al Gore, is another inconvenient truth.
“Given their forecasts, this has to be a pretty muscular phenomenon…”
Great snark line I saw on another site (not sure who to credit): “If only there were some sort of natural factor that could explain global temperature variations… It would have to be massive, though. Approximately on the magnitude of our own Sun.”
(that’s not to say the sun is doing 100% of the work or anything; it was just a great snark).
MrCannuckistan:
“The realities of the Holocaust are irrefutatble[sic] and people rarely want to be thought of as immoral.”
It is against the law in much of Europe to investigate the historial facts of that era.
You can google my name and “Hitler and a Historian.”
I don’t feel immoral at all.
Damn. I deserve a {sic] too.
I see the clown college semester is over, and our very own idiot savant name stealing troll is back.
Hunter(the phony one) does it feel to be caught out on the wrong side of facts, history, ethics, etc. and to realize that you were taken out of the wading pool end of the genetic pool in the first place?
That those exposed in the e-mails spend a great deal of time figuring out how to hide the very things our host pointed out is clearly beyond our troll’s abilities.
But then, crossing the street without a guide is likely beyond our troll, as well.
The IPCC http://ipcc.ch) archives have been removed from the Way Back Machine (Internet Archives)http://web.archive.org. On 30 November 2009, I was able to access the IPCC archives, but on 1 December 2009, all I got for the 20 or so links I checked was “Archive not found”.
Looks like the coverup is going full steam ahead.
Has the monopoly of propoganda finally started to be challenged? I would comment todays (Friday 4th December 2009) ABC RN Counterpoint broadcast with Aynsley Kellow, Professor and Head of the School of Government at the University of Tasmania.
The ABC for what I believe the very first time actually allowed a sceptic, in the true and scientifically honorable sense of the word, raise serious doubts about the way the science may have been manipulated to promote the golbal warming, now known as climate change, industry. Well done ABC.