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	<title>Comments on: Incentives and Conspiracies</title>
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		<title>By: ADiff</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/12/incentives-and-conspiracies.html/comment-page-1#comment-7032</link>
		<dc:creator>ADiff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 07:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1589#comment-7032</guid>
		<description>Richard,

The question could be re-stated as &#039;would the apparent cessation of the previous warming trend turn into a more substantial cooling trend&#039;.  The previously observed warming (to the extent it&#039;s real and not an artifact of sampling error!) already appears to have ended, at least for the last decade.  We do not know at this point (it seems to me) whether this will continue to be the case, or whether there will be other period(s) of warming, or whether we may see period(s) of cooling.  But in any event, if criticism of the positive feedback mechanisms upon which Catastrophic Global Warming (utterly) rely is accurate, and such either doesn&#039;t exist or is much less pronounced than AGW advocates contend, then whatever we do about CO2, whether we reduce or increase its emissions, won&#039;t really matter a great deal, but be largely subsumed in other, as yet not fully understood, determinants of cyclical and irregular changes in climate trends.

&quot;If the results are defined ahead of time, IT AIN’T SCIENCE[.]&quot; And if the data are manipulated to achieve those desired results, it&#039;s jobbery, and ANTI-SCIENCE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard,</p>
<p>The question could be re-stated as &#8216;would the apparent cessation of the previous warming trend turn into a more substantial cooling trend&#8217;.  The previously observed warming (to the extent it&#8217;s real and not an artifact of sampling error!) already appears to have ended, at least for the last decade.  We do not know at this point (it seems to me) whether this will continue to be the case, or whether there will be other period(s) of warming, or whether we may see period(s) of cooling.  But in any event, if criticism of the positive feedback mechanisms upon which Catastrophic Global Warming (utterly) rely is accurate, and such either doesn&#8217;t exist or is much less pronounced than AGW advocates contend, then whatever we do about CO2, whether we reduce or increase its emissions, won&#8217;t really matter a great deal, but be largely subsumed in other, as yet not fully understood, determinants of cyclical and irregular changes in climate trends.</p>
<p>&#8220;If the results are defined ahead of time, IT AIN’T SCIENCE[.]&#8221; And if the data are manipulated to achieve those desired results, it&#8217;s jobbery, and ANTI-SCIENCE.</p>
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		<title>By: O Bloody Hell</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/12/incentives-and-conspiracies.html/comment-page-1#comment-6602</link>
		<dc:creator>O Bloody Hell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1589#comment-6602</guid>
		<description>&gt; If only alarmist results are funded, then it should not be surprising that only alarmist studies are produced.

Uh, I gots some newz fer yaz all ---

&lt;b&gt;If the results are defined &lt;i&gt;ahead&lt;/i&gt; of time, &lt;i&gt;IT AIN&#039;T SCIENCE&lt;/i&gt; that&#039;s getting funded.&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; If only alarmist results are funded, then it should not be surprising that only alarmist studies are produced.</p>
<p>Uh, I gots some newz fer yaz all &#8212;</p>
<p><b>If the results are defined <i>ahead</i> of time, <i>IT AIN&#8217;T SCIENCE</i> that&#8217;s getting funded.</b></p>
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		<title>By: O Bloody Hell</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/12/incentives-and-conspiracies.html/comment-page-1#comment-6601</link>
		<dc:creator>O Bloody Hell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1589#comment-6601</guid>
		<description>&gt; According to UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown, deniers not only think that the Earth is 4,000 years old, they also think that it is flat.

The latter is certainly true if you assume space is warped in a certain specific way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; According to UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown, deniers not only think that the Earth is 4,000 years old, they also think that it is flat.</p>
<p>The latter is certainly true if you assume space is warped in a certain specific way.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/12/incentives-and-conspiracies.html/comment-page-1#comment-6580</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1589#comment-6580</guid>
		<description>FWIW: Young Earth Creationists believe that the earth is about 7000 years old, not 4000.

This number was derived by somebody counting up generations and date information in the bible.

Even the Young Earth types are not so foolish as to say that the earth started in the time of the Patriarchs - that wouldn&#039;t fit their data set.

The problem with the AGW types is that they cannot even leave their dataset alone and interpret from there. They are compelled to alter (model) that data until it fits what they are after.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FWIW: Young Earth Creationists believe that the earth is about 7000 years old, not 4000.</p>
<p>This number was derived by somebody counting up generations and date information in the bible.</p>
<p>Even the Young Earth types are not so foolish as to say that the earth started in the time of the Patriarchs &#8211; that wouldn&#8217;t fit their data set.</p>
<p>The problem with the AGW types is that they cannot even leave their dataset alone and interpret from there. They are compelled to alter (model) that data until it fits what they are after.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Saumarez</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/12/incentives-and-conspiracies.html/comment-page-1#comment-6578</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Saumarez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1589#comment-6578</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m no fan of conspiracy theories, especially when venality and stupidity will do.  However, if the IPCC has its way and CO2 output drops dramatically, is it possible that the warming trend applied to the data will suddenly become a cooling trend?

Yours paranoiacally</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m no fan of conspiracy theories, especially when venality and stupidity will do.  However, if the IPCC has its way and CO2 output drops dramatically, is it possible that the warming trend applied to the data will suddenly become a cooling trend?</p>
<p>Yours paranoiacally</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/12/incentives-and-conspiracies.html/comment-page-1#comment-6572</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 23:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1589#comment-6572</guid>
		<description>I challenge you to provide an example (ideally a link) of any grant program with funding instructions anything like this:  

    Successful candidates will:
    1) Demonstrate AGW [ed: Anthropogenic Global Warming]
    2) Demonstrate the catastrophic consequences of AGW.
    3) Explore policy implications stemming from 1 &amp; 2.

Saying you have encountered this is a lie.  Not that that would bother you or most your readers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I challenge you to provide an example (ideally a link) of any grant program with funding instructions anything like this:  </p>
<p>    Successful candidates will:<br />
    1) Demonstrate AGW [ed: Anthropogenic Global Warming]<br />
    2) Demonstrate the catastrophic consequences of AGW.<br />
    3) Explore policy implications stemming from 1 &amp; 2.</p>
<p>Saying you have encountered this is a lie.  Not that that would bother you or most your readers.</p>
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		<title>By: Hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/12/incentives-and-conspiracies.html/comment-page-1#comment-6563</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 10:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1589#comment-6563</guid>
		<description>How fucking gullible can you get?  Did you bother to look up who that commenter was?  Did you try to find out whether they were actually a scientist, or if they had ever in fact published a climate-related paper?  Clearly not.  You just found a statement that fitted in with your retarded beliefs, and parroted it unquestioningly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How fucking gullible can you get?  Did you bother to look up who that commenter was?  Did you try to find out whether they were actually a scientist, or if they had ever in fact published a climate-related paper?  Clearly not.  You just found a statement that fitted in with your retarded beliefs, and parroted it unquestioningly.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/12/incentives-and-conspiracies.html/comment-page-1#comment-6548</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1589#comment-6548</guid>
		<description>Well said. Most researchers have not seriously looked into the theories behind AGW, because they are so busy studying the &quot;effects&quot;. AGW has spun an entire industry of research into &quot;what could happen&quot;. The possibilities of &quot;what could happen&quot; are nearly limitless, so AGW has been a real boon to all kinds of researchers.One things for certain with this type of &quot;research&quot;, the effects of a warming climate are all bad!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said. Most researchers have not seriously looked into the theories behind AGW, because they are so busy studying the &#8220;effects&#8221;. AGW has spun an entire industry of research into &#8220;what could happen&#8221;. The possibilities of &#8220;what could happen&#8221; are nearly limitless, so AGW has been a real boon to all kinds of researchers.One things for certain with this type of &#8220;research&#8221;, the effects of a warming climate are all bad!</p>
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		<title>By: Shills</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/12/incentives-and-conspiracies.html/comment-page-1#comment-6537</link>
		<dc:creator>Shills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 07:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1589#comment-6537</guid>
		<description>I agree that this post relies too heavily on anecdotes. That story about the funding application, if real, was possibly taken out of context. 

Anyway. I just wanna see how other lay peeps come to their conclusions on this AGW issue. I am convinced that their is a scientific consensus that AGW is happening. This is founded on the widespread presentation of such in skeptical groups (like Australian skeptics). Popular science publications such as New Scientist, popular science celebs like Dr Karl, who are known for being skeptical. Maybe others I can&#039;t think of right now.

Being a lay person, I cannot look at the research or data meaningfully, so I don&#039;t. I can only look at the consensus. 

To me, it is more rational to go with the consensus, is it not? This siding with the consensus would cease to exist if: It was shown that a consensus does not exist, that a fatal flaw in the science (monoculture, conspiracy...) was evident, that umm... I dunno what makes you suspicious of CC?   

Sry if this has been covered before. I&#039;m not trying to make enemies or friends, just trying to test my position. So go nuts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that this post relies too heavily on anecdotes. That story about the funding application, if real, was possibly taken out of context. </p>
<p>Anyway. I just wanna see how other lay peeps come to their conclusions on this AGW issue. I am convinced that their is a scientific consensus that AGW is happening. This is founded on the widespread presentation of such in skeptical groups (like Australian skeptics). Popular science publications such as New Scientist, popular science celebs like Dr Karl, who are known for being skeptical. Maybe others I can&#8217;t think of right now.</p>
<p>Being a lay person, I cannot look at the research or data meaningfully, so I don&#8217;t. I can only look at the consensus. </p>
<p>To me, it is more rational to go with the consensus, is it not? This siding with the consensus would cease to exist if: It was shown that a consensus does not exist, that a fatal flaw in the science (monoculture, conspiracy&#8230;) was evident, that umm&#8230; I dunno what makes you suspicious of CC?   </p>
<p>Sry if this has been covered before. I&#8217;m not trying to make enemies or friends, just trying to test my position. So go nuts.</p>
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		<title>By: TanGeng</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/12/incentives-and-conspiracies.html/comment-page-1#comment-6497</link>
		<dc:creator>TanGeng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1589#comment-6497</guid>
		<description>No real conspiracy although a conspiracy can develop if like-minded individuals are intimate enough like those involved in the ClimateGate emails.

Most of the consensus in climate science can be attributed to confirmation bias, self-selection, and one huge exogenous driver.  Confirmation bias is when people who study climate sciences enter the field with a preconceived notion and go on to confirm that notion by drawing strong spurious connections between largely unrelated signals.  Self-selection is that these Global Climate Change Conventions self-selects for those that believes humans are the cause of climate change.  Finally there is one large exogenous driver, public funding from politicians who are either easily scared or want to scare easily scared people.

Any conspiracies that do happen, happen on a much smaller scale like the dozen or so people of ClimateGate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No real conspiracy although a conspiracy can develop if like-minded individuals are intimate enough like those involved in the ClimateGate emails.</p>
<p>Most of the consensus in climate science can be attributed to confirmation bias, self-selection, and one huge exogenous driver.  Confirmation bias is when people who study climate sciences enter the field with a preconceived notion and go on to confirm that notion by drawing strong spurious connections between largely unrelated signals.  Self-selection is that these Global Climate Change Conventions self-selects for those that believes humans are the cause of climate change.  Finally there is one large exogenous driver, public funding from politicians who are either easily scared or want to scare easily scared people.</p>
<p>Any conspiracies that do happen, happen on a much smaller scale like the dozen or so people of ClimateGate.</p>
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