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	<title>Comments on: More Hockey Stick Hyjinx</title>
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		<title>By: DN</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/09/more-hockey-stick-hyjinx.html/comment-page-1#comment-5709</link>
		<dc:creator>DN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 06:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1295#comment-5709</guid>
		<description>Dr. Roger Pielke Jr. is taking a thoughtful approach.  
&#8220;If Steve has discovered a smoking gun, then I&#8217;d expect Nature and Science to both be candidate publications. And I would really hope that some of those members of the relevant expert community who (I know) frequent his blog would join with him, perhaps as co-authors, to help bring the new analysis into the mainstream scientific discussion. That is how science moves forward.&#8221;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/&lt;/a&gt;
I agree with Pielke.  Publication in Science or Nature would get the attention of the larger scientific community and hopefully the mainstream press.  Is it the tipping point?  If Steve McIntyre can get this published in one of those two journals, it might be.  It would, at very least, be very hard to ignore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Roger Pielke Jr. is taking a thoughtful approach.<br />
&#8220;If Steve has discovered a smoking gun, then I&#8217;d expect Nature and Science to both be candidate publications. And I would really hope that some of those members of the relevant expert community who (I know) frequent his blog would join with him, perhaps as co-authors, to help bring the new analysis into the mainstream scientific discussion. That is how science moves forward.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/</a><br />
I agree with Pielke.  Publication in Science or Nature would get the attention of the larger scientific community and hopefully the mainstream press.  Is it the tipping point?  If Steve McIntyre can get this published in one of those two journals, it might be.  It would, at very least, be very hard to ignore.</p>
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		<title>By: ron from Texas</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/09/more-hockey-stick-hyjinx.html/comment-page-1#comment-5701</link>
		<dc:creator>ron from Texas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1295#comment-5701</guid>
		<description>I agree with the author. The findings of McIntyre and McKitrick is a bit of a denoument. Similar to taking a sat photo of Earth to show as proof that the world is not flat. A bit pedestrian and mundane (a bit of &quot;I told you so&quot;) but probably necessary as long as people continue to believe the Earth is flat. In continuing the simile, some will continue to believe the Earth is flat, i.e., that man is warming the globe through CO2. The AGW theory was faulty merely on the basis of basic science as well as the natural errors that can occur in temp proxies, regardless of what statistical norming or adjustements one can make. For example, tree ring growth can also be a function of other factors, not just temperature. Currents and air flow bring other nutrients or failing to bring other nutrients could little or nothing to do with temp.

In the end, it may not matter much as to why Briffa only selected 12. Even if he meant well or had what he thought was a valid reason to reject the evidence from the rest of the data sets. The fact of limiting to just some of the data from some of the 12 trees is suspect in itself. Let me explain with an example of weather extremes where I live.

I live in north Texas, about 60 miles generally north of Dallas. In March 2006, I was working in McKinney and we had a 100 F day, in spite of the general flat line of the Earth&#039;s global temp. In March 2008, we had two snow blizzards in one week. Each one dumping 8 inches of snow. I have lived in Texas since 1974 and that is the first time I remember seeing that much snow in March. Neither event, in and of itself is a sign of warming or cooling, necessarily. But each should be added into the weather variations to come up with whatever average we have. I also have a hard time remembering any March before 2006 that had a 100 F day. But a true scientist will collect all the evidence to make an average, which may turn out to show a net increase or decrease of zero, and that&#039;s fine, too. An average is just that, a collection of data, some at extreme ends of the spectrum and usually a whole bunch clustered around the middle. But even a collection of extremes will have an apparent average between them.

The more data you have, the more accurate your average is. We normally get a lot of tornados. This season has been drastically down in counts. Even though we had two in my county this year. On average, we don&#039;t get tornados in my county very often but we had two this year. It&#039;s a local event but the greater average is down. Why? We have a large data set every year. What do tornados have to to with climate change or global warming? Not much. What makes a tornado is the meeting of a cold front, moist air from the Gulf of Mexico, and a dry line from the west Texas desert meeting and creating a tall enough storm in a low pressure area that it rises up to near the jet stream. If the jet stream is changing directions (has a bend in it) which it usually does in Texas and Oklahoma, voila, tornado. And temp differentials have nothing to do with global average temp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the author. The findings of McIntyre and McKitrick is a bit of a denoument. Similar to taking a sat photo of Earth to show as proof that the world is not flat. A bit pedestrian and mundane (a bit of &#8220;I told you so&#8221;) but probably necessary as long as people continue to believe the Earth is flat. In continuing the simile, some will continue to believe the Earth is flat, i.e., that man is warming the globe through CO2. The AGW theory was faulty merely on the basis of basic science as well as the natural errors that can occur in temp proxies, regardless of what statistical norming or adjustements one can make. For example, tree ring growth can also be a function of other factors, not just temperature. Currents and air flow bring other nutrients or failing to bring other nutrients could little or nothing to do with temp.</p>
<p>In the end, it may not matter much as to why Briffa only selected 12. Even if he meant well or had what he thought was a valid reason to reject the evidence from the rest of the data sets. The fact of limiting to just some of the data from some of the 12 trees is suspect in itself. Let me explain with an example of weather extremes where I live.</p>
<p>I live in north Texas, about 60 miles generally north of Dallas. In March 2006, I was working in McKinney and we had a 100 F day, in spite of the general flat line of the Earth&#8217;s global temp. In March 2008, we had two snow blizzards in one week. Each one dumping 8 inches of snow. I have lived in Texas since 1974 and that is the first time I remember seeing that much snow in March. Neither event, in and of itself is a sign of warming or cooling, necessarily. But each should be added into the weather variations to come up with whatever average we have. I also have a hard time remembering any March before 2006 that had a 100 F day. But a true scientist will collect all the evidence to make an average, which may turn out to show a net increase or decrease of zero, and that&#8217;s fine, too. An average is just that, a collection of data, some at extreme ends of the spectrum and usually a whole bunch clustered around the middle. But even a collection of extremes will have an apparent average between them.</p>
<p>The more data you have, the more accurate your average is. We normally get a lot of tornados. This season has been drastically down in counts. Even though we had two in my county this year. On average, we don&#8217;t get tornados in my county very often but we had two this year. It&#8217;s a local event but the greater average is down. Why? We have a large data set every year. What do tornados have to to with climate change or global warming? Not much. What makes a tornado is the meeting of a cold front, moist air from the Gulf of Mexico, and a dry line from the west Texas desert meeting and creating a tall enough storm in a low pressure area that it rises up to near the jet stream. If the jet stream is changing directions (has a bend in it) which it usually does in Texas and Oklahoma, voila, tornado. And temp differentials have nothing to do with global average temp.</p>
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		<title>By: Hockey Picks</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/09/more-hockey-stick-hyjinx.html/comment-page-1#comment-5699</link>
		<dc:creator>Hockey Picks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 06:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1295#comment-5699</guid>
		<description>As for Tamino’s latest: I’m really not that interested
This made me tear up....... 

And that is some serious paneling, my friend.thank u post.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for Tamino’s latest: I’m really not that interested<br />
This made me tear up&#8230;&#8230;. </p>
<p>And that is some serious paneling, my friend.thank u post&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: pauld</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/09/more-hockey-stick-hyjinx.html/comment-page-1#comment-5687</link>
		<dc:creator>pauld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 17:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1295#comment-5687</guid>
		<description>As for Tamino’s latest: I’m really not that interested. He just doesn’t have the credibility to merit attention. I have way better things to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for Tamino’s latest: I’m really not that interested. He just doesn’t have the credibility to merit attention. I have way better things to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Mailman</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/09/more-hockey-stick-hyjinx.html/comment-page-1#comment-5684</link>
		<dc:creator>Mailman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1295#comment-5684</guid>
		<description>Hunter,

I think you hit the problem on the head here.

The problem SM faces is far harder to over come than just publishing his data. The real problem is that humans are involved. These &quot;scientists&quot; have invested enourmous amounts of energy, time, effort, money in to proving global warming (tm) is man made! These same people arent just going to roll over and accept SM&#039;s information without a fight.

Yes SM maybe right, however human nature dictates that these so called scientists will fight him tooth and nail to protect their reputations!

After all, their reputations are far more important than the science itself!

Mailman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hunter,</p>
<p>I think you hit the problem on the head here.</p>
<p>The problem SM faces is far harder to over come than just publishing his data. The real problem is that humans are involved. These &#8220;scientists&#8221; have invested enourmous amounts of energy, time, effort, money in to proving global warming &#8482; is man made! These same people arent just going to roll over and accept SM&#8217;s information without a fight.</p>
<p>Yes SM maybe right, however human nature dictates that these so called scientists will fight him tooth and nail to protect their reputations!</p>
<p>After all, their reputations are far more important than the science itself!</p>
<p>Mailman</p>
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		<title>By: hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/09/more-hockey-stick-hyjinx.html/comment-page-1#comment-5680</link>
		<dc:creator>hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 01:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1295#comment-5680</guid>
		<description>The chances of either magazine, in their current editorial stance, of publishing something as devastating to AGW as this is ~0.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The chances of either magazine, in their current editorial stance, of publishing something as devastating to AGW as this is ~0.</p>
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		<title>By: commieBob</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/09/more-hockey-stick-hyjinx.html/comment-page-1#comment-5679</link>
		<dc:creator>commieBob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1295#comment-5679</guid>
		<description>Dr. Roger Pielke Jr. is taking a thoughtful approach.  

&quot;If Steve has discovered a smoking gun, then I&#039;d expect Nature and Science to both be candidate publications. And I would really hope that some of those members of the relevant expert community who (I know) frequent his blog would join with him, perhaps as co-authors, to help bring the new analysis into the mainstream scientific discussion. That is how science moves forward.&quot;

http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/

I agree with Pielke.  Publication in Science or Nature would get the attention of the larger scientific community and hopefully the mainstream press.  Is it the tipping point?  If Steve McIntyre can get this published in one of those two journals, it might be.  It would, at very least, be very hard to ignore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Roger Pielke Jr. is taking a thoughtful approach.  </p>
<p>&#8220;If Steve has discovered a smoking gun, then I&#8217;d expect Nature and Science to both be candidate publications. And I would really hope that some of those members of the relevant expert community who (I know) frequent his blog would join with him, perhaps as co-authors, to help bring the new analysis into the mainstream scientific discussion. That is how science moves forward.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>I agree with Pielke.  Publication in Science or Nature would get the attention of the larger scientific community and hopefully the mainstream press.  Is it the tipping point?  If Steve McIntyre can get this published in one of those two journals, it might be.  It would, at very least, be very hard to ignore.</p>
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		<title>By: hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/09/more-hockey-stick-hyjinx.html/comment-page-1#comment-5678</link>
		<dc:creator>hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1295#comment-5678</guid>
		<description>morganovitch,
For Tamino, the king of de nile, to pretend he can simply pretend the fraud issue with the underpinnings of AGW does not exist, is frankly an  honorable distinction which McIntyre has earned.
Showing deception, prejudicial cherry picking, and irreproducible results is, in the world of real science and any ethical inquiry, a devestating problem.
For AGW, not so much.
For AGW true believers, they do not even understand the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>morganovitch,<br />
For Tamino, the king of de nile, to pretend he can simply pretend the fraud issue with the underpinnings of AGW does not exist, is frankly an  honorable distinction which McIntyre has earned.<br />
Showing deception, prejudicial cherry picking, and irreproducible results is, in the world of real science and any ethical inquiry, a devestating problem.<br />
For AGW, not so much.<br />
For AGW true believers, they do not even understand the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: morganovich</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/09/more-hockey-stick-hyjinx.html/comment-page-1#comment-5676</link>
		<dc:creator>morganovich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1295#comment-5676</guid>
		<description>very prescient prediction about real climate.

this just in from &quot;tamino&quot;:

&quot;As for Steve McIntyre’s latest: I’m really not that interested. He just doesn’t have the credibility to merit attention. I have way better things to do.&quot;

nice to see ad hominem alive and well.

watts linking to an AGU presentation confirming SM&#039;s results.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/30/agu-presentation-backs-up-mcintyres-findings-that-there-is-no-hockey-stick-in-yamal/#more-11328</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very prescient prediction about real climate.</p>
<p>this just in from &#8220;tamino&#8221;:</p>
<p>&#8220;As for Steve McIntyre’s latest: I’m really not that interested. He just doesn’t have the credibility to merit attention. I have way better things to do.&#8221;</p>
<p>nice to see ad hominem alive and well.</p>
<p>watts linking to an AGU presentation confirming SM&#8217;s results.</p>
<p><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/30/agu-presentation-backs-up-mcintyres-findings-that-there-is-no-hockey-stick-in-yamal/#more-11328" rel="nofollow">http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/30/agu-presentation-backs-up-mcintyres-findings-that-there-is-no-hockey-stick-in-yamal/#more-11328</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ike</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/09/more-hockey-stick-hyjinx.html/comment-page-1#comment-5675</link>
		<dc:creator>Ike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1295#comment-5675</guid>
		<description>I once left a very respectful but skeptical comment over at DeSmogBlog.

It was deleted.

I refuse to have major parts of my life dictated by people who abuse science by dismissing inquiry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once left a very respectful but skeptical comment over at DeSmogBlog.</p>
<p>It was deleted.</p>
<p>I refuse to have major parts of my life dictated by people who abuse science by dismissing inquiry.</p>
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