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	<title>Comments on: Evan Mills Response to My Critique of the Grid Outage Chart</title>
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	<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/07/evan-mills-response-to-my-critique-of-the-grid-outage-chart.html</link>
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		<title>By: FollowFacts</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/07/evan-mills-response-to-my-critique-of-the-grid-outage-chart.html/comment-page-1#comment-5548</link>
		<dc:creator>FollowFacts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 17:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1232#comment-5548</guid>
		<description>Graphite did us a service by posting the definition of &quot;profane&quot;.  Indeed, it would be profane to an acolyte of Gaia.
On the other hand, if Dr. Mills does not worship Gaia, then he should have used &quot;scatological&quot;.
Warren Meyer can keep them hopping by ringing the changes with &quot;excrement&quot;, drek and so forth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graphite did us a service by posting the definition of &#8220;profane&#8221;.  Indeed, it would be profane to an acolyte of Gaia.<br />
On the other hand, if Dr. Mills does not worship Gaia, then he should have used &#8220;scatological&#8221;.<br />
Warren Meyer can keep them hopping by ringing the changes with &#8220;excrement&#8221;, drek and so forth.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Fix</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/07/evan-mills-response-to-my-critique-of-the-grid-outage-chart.html/comment-page-1#comment-5534</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Fix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 10:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1232#comment-5534</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s probably too late to put a comment here that anyone might actually read, so I&#039;ll keep it brief.  

About reporting bias, it occurred to me that in the early, vastly underreported days, it is much more likely to get reports of non-weather-caused outages, rather than weather events.  A hardware or infrastructure event (inadequate connections, components, etc.) is something you can do something about, and someone else can check to prevent a recurrence--weather isn&#039;t.  So those events would be reported most faithfully.

Another question is what counts as a weather event?  Does a tree branch being blown over onto a line count as a weather event (the wind blew the tree over) or as a tree-being-too-close-to-the-line event (inadequate maintenance)?

Ed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s probably too late to put a comment here that anyone might actually read, so I&#8217;ll keep it brief.  </p>
<p>About reporting bias, it occurred to me that in the early, vastly underreported days, it is much more likely to get reports of non-weather-caused outages, rather than weather events.  A hardware or infrastructure event (inadequate connections, components, etc.) is something you can do something about, and someone else can check to prevent a recurrence&#8211;weather isn&#8217;t.  So those events would be reported most faithfully.</p>
<p>Another question is what counts as a weather event?  Does a tree branch being blown over onto a line count as a weather event (the wind blew the tree over) or as a tree-being-too-close-to-the-line event (inadequate maintenance)?</p>
<p>Ed</p>
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		<title>By: jnicklin</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/07/evan-mills-response-to-my-critique-of-the-grid-outage-chart.html/comment-page-1#comment-5533</link>
		<dc:creator>jnicklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1232#comment-5533</guid>
		<description>Did they also count the number of times a power line was taken out by a vehicle skidding off the road in bad weather? While I can&#039;t say much about conditions in the USA or anywhere else outside of Canada, I have seen massive growth in our major cities over the past 20 years, more in the past 10. If weather knocked out a power grid 30 years ago a town of 15,000 people would be in an outage. If that same storm knocked out that same grid point today, it would, conceivably, affect 45-60,000. Couple that to the increased number of grid points and it adds up. Previous comments about people building in known storm regions are spot on as far as I can observe.

Also, the current North American power gid system is old and not up to the challenge that we place on it. During seriously bad weather, most people tend to hole up indoors, placing a higher draw on the grid, this can also lead to outages or at least brown-outs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did they also count the number of times a power line was taken out by a vehicle skidding off the road in bad weather? While I can&#8217;t say much about conditions in the USA or anywhere else outside of Canada, I have seen massive growth in our major cities over the past 20 years, more in the past 10. If weather knocked out a power grid 30 years ago a town of 15,000 people would be in an outage. If that same storm knocked out that same grid point today, it would, conceivably, affect 45-60,000. Couple that to the increased number of grid points and it adds up. Previous comments about people building in known storm regions are spot on as far as I can observe.</p>
<p>Also, the current North American power gid system is old and not up to the challenge that we place on it. During seriously bad weather, most people tend to hole up indoors, placing a higher draw on the grid, this can also lead to outages or at least brown-outs.</p>
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		<title>By: commieBob</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/07/evan-mills-response-to-my-critique-of-the-grid-outage-chart.html/comment-page-1#comment-5505</link>
		<dc:creator>commieBob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1232#comment-5505</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Burt Rutan&lt;/b&gt; has come out as a climate skeptic.  Burt is the guy who is building the spaceship/aircraft/thingie that will take tourists into space (he won the Ansari prize for getting above the atmosphere twice in two weeks).  He is an aeronautical engineer with a very long list of accomplishments.  Check out his 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burt_Rutan&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wiki article&lt;/a&gt;.

Although Burt makes no claim to be a climate scientist, he is expert at analyzing data.  He has looked at some of the &#039;popular&#039; global warming propaganda and found mis-analysis that is nearly/completely fraudulent.  That won&#039;t come as a surprise to anyone here.  The point is that Burt commands a lot of respect; he really does have friends in high places.  (I wonder how many more people like Burt, and how much more evidence we need, before the global warming alarmists come to their senses.) Here&#039;s a &lt;a href=&quot;http://rps3.com/Pages/Burt_Rutan_on_Climate_Change.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; link&lt;/a&gt; to Burt&#039;s powerpoint presentation.

P.S. A-Nony-Mouse is right about designing instruments.  The A/D converter design mistakes he talks about; been there, done that.  Having said that, I still teach GIGO (garbage in garbage out, for you whippersnappers that are too young to know).  In fact, I spend a lot of time on the appropriate use of equations.  Equations are models.  Every equation has an appropriate domain.  Within its domain, the accuracy of an equation is well known and adequate for its intended purpose.  Sometimes you can get more accuracy with a more sophisticated equation/model; sometimes you can&#039;t.  By definition, using an equation outside its safe domain will produce erroneous results.  (No climate model has a safe domain where it has demonstrated the ability to correctly predict results outside the historical data set with which it was calibrated.)  Reality always trumps theory.

P.P.S. I am dismayed that political affiliation and attitude to global warming are so closely correlated.  Most of my fellow &#039;lefties&#039; seem to have drunk the global warming kool-aid.  Too bad people can&#039;t uncouple themselves from dogma and just go with what works.  Universal medical care works (ask almost any Canadian),  global warming (and the crazy remedies for it) doesn&#039;t work.  Sigh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Burt Rutan</b> has come out as a climate skeptic.  Burt is the guy who is building the spaceship/aircraft/thingie that will take tourists into space (he won the Ansari prize for getting above the atmosphere twice in two weeks).  He is an aeronautical engineer with a very long list of accomplishments.  Check out his<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burt_Rutan" rel="nofollow">wiki article</a>.</p>
<p>Although Burt makes no claim to be a climate scientist, he is expert at analyzing data.  He has looked at some of the &#8216;popular&#8217; global warming propaganda and found mis-analysis that is nearly/completely fraudulent.  That won&#8217;t come as a surprise to anyone here.  The point is that Burt commands a lot of respect; he really does have friends in high places.  (I wonder how many more people like Burt, and how much more evidence we need, before the global warming alarmists come to their senses.) Here&#8217;s a <a href="http://rps3.com/Pages/Burt_Rutan_on_Climate_Change.htm" rel="nofollow"> link</a> to Burt&#8217;s powerpoint presentation.</p>
<p>P.S. A-Nony-Mouse is right about designing instruments.  The A/D converter design mistakes he talks about; been there, done that.  Having said that, I still teach GIGO (garbage in garbage out, for you whippersnappers that are too young to know).  In fact, I spend a lot of time on the appropriate use of equations.  Equations are models.  Every equation has an appropriate domain.  Within its domain, the accuracy of an equation is well known and adequate for its intended purpose.  Sometimes you can get more accuracy with a more sophisticated equation/model; sometimes you can&#8217;t.  By definition, using an equation outside its safe domain will produce erroneous results.  (No climate model has a safe domain where it has demonstrated the ability to correctly predict results outside the historical data set with which it was calibrated.)  Reality always trumps theory.</p>
<p>P.P.S. I am dismayed that political affiliation and attitude to global warming are so closely correlated.  Most of my fellow &#8216;lefties&#8217; seem to have drunk the global warming kool-aid.  Too bad people can&#8217;t uncouple themselves from dogma and just go with what works.  Universal medical care works (ask almost any Canadian),  global warming (and the crazy remedies for it) doesn&#8217;t work.  Sigh!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve H.</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/07/evan-mills-response-to-my-critique-of-the-grid-outage-chart.html/comment-page-1#comment-5499</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:26:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1232#comment-5499</guid>
		<description>Here is an interesting article &quot;What if global-warming fears are overblown&quot; from fortune magazines (last updated May 14, 2009 from cnnmoney.com) May issue (I think).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is an interesting article &#8220;What if global-warming fears are overblown&#8221; from fortune magazines (last updated May 14, 2009 from cnnmoney.com) May issue (I think).</p>
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		<title>By: Steve H.</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/07/evan-mills-response-to-my-critique-of-the-grid-outage-chart.html/comment-page-1#comment-5498</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1232#comment-5498</guid>
		<description>I tried to contact the site in order to provide a site that in my opinion shows that there may be a problem with the supposition that we are headed for disasterous long tem high and dry temperatures in the near and distant future. If you are interested please go to &quot;www.iceagenow.com&quot;. I&#039;m not sure if I believe the obvious conclusion presented by the site name but the temperatures reported are very interesting and it shows that in a large area of the US July of this year has resulted in many low records for the entire month (the hottest month of the year. I am going to tag this site to see how August compares.

What brought me to this site to begin with was In 1982 (or 1980) one of those years as I remember my wife&#039;s missery during one of our two childrens gestation periods (I&#039;m pretty sure it was 1982 as this child was born in Aug. but I degress. My point is that in Hobbs New Mexico A record was set that still holds and that is 90 consecutive day of 100 degree or better temperatures. I think that the CO2 levels have risen considerably since then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried to contact the site in order to provide a site that in my opinion shows that there may be a problem with the supposition that we are headed for disasterous long tem high and dry temperatures in the near and distant future. If you are interested please go to &#8220;www.iceagenow.com&#8221;. I&#8217;m not sure if I believe the obvious conclusion presented by the site name but the temperatures reported are very interesting and it shows that in a large area of the US July of this year has resulted in many low records for the entire month (the hottest month of the year. I am going to tag this site to see how August compares.</p>
<p>What brought me to this site to begin with was In 1982 (or 1980) one of those years as I remember my wife&#8217;s missery during one of our two childrens gestation periods (I&#8217;m pretty sure it was 1982 as this child was born in Aug. but I degress. My point is that in Hobbs New Mexico A record was set that still holds and that is 90 consecutive day of 100 degree or better temperatures. I think that the CO2 levels have risen considerably since then.</p>
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		<title>By: Graphite</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/07/evan-mills-response-to-my-critique-of-the-grid-outage-chart.html/comment-page-1#comment-5486</link>
		<dc:creator>Graphite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1232#comment-5486</guid>
		<description>This cracked me up...
&quot;The use of profanity in the title of the first entry is additionally unprofessional&quot;

From Merriam-Webster http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/profane

Main Entry:1pro·fane 
Pronunciation:\prō-ˈfān, prə-\ 
Function:transitive verb 
Inflected Form(s):pro·faned; pro·fan·ing
Etymology:Middle English prophanen, from Anglo-French prophaner, from Latin profanare, from profanus
Date:14th century
1 : to treat (something sacred) with abuse, irreverence, or contempt : desecrate 

LOL

Excellent work - keep it up! - and THANKS for helping keep many of the rest of us sane!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This cracked me up&#8230;<br />
&#8220;The use of profanity in the title of the first entry is additionally unprofessional&#8221;</p>
<p>From Merriam-Webster <a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/profane" rel="nofollow">http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/profane</a></p>
<p>Main Entry:1pro·fane<br />
Pronunciation:\prō-ˈfān, prə-\<br />
Function:transitive verb<br />
Inflected Form(s):pro·faned; pro·fan·ing<br />
Etymology:Middle English prophanen, from Anglo-French prophaner, from Latin profanare, from profanus<br />
Date:14th century<br />
1 : to treat (something sacred) with abuse, irreverence, or contempt : desecrate </p>
<p>LOL</p>
<p>Excellent work &#8211; keep it up! &#8211; and THANKS for helping keep many of the rest of us sane!</p>
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		<title>By: Esox Lucius</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/07/evan-mills-response-to-my-critique-of-the-grid-outage-chart.html/comment-page-1#comment-5483</link>
		<dc:creator>Esox Lucius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1232#comment-5483</guid>
		<description>Caca? That seriously cracked me up. Almost choked on my yogurt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caca? That seriously cracked me up. Almost choked on my yogurt.</p>
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		<title>By: Elliot</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/07/evan-mills-response-to-my-critique-of-the-grid-outage-chart.html/comment-page-1#comment-5481</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1232#comment-5481</guid>
		<description>It might be worth putting the point in a different way.  You could draw up a chart showing that the number of babies born each year is growing without bothering to &quot;normalize&quot; for the increasing number of people/families  moving into these coastal areas.  It would give the same impression, &quot;Those poor girls, all those new babies, how can they manage?&quot;  They&#039;d need an airlift for Huggies. 

Remember, it&#039;s a Little knowledge that&#039;s a dangeraous thing.  Thanks for keeping up with the fight.

E</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It might be worth putting the point in a different way.  You could draw up a chart showing that the number of babies born each year is growing without bothering to &#8220;normalize&#8221; for the increasing number of people/families  moving into these coastal areas.  It would give the same impression, &#8220;Those poor girls, all those new babies, how can they manage?&#8221;  They&#8217;d need an airlift for Huggies. </p>
<p>Remember, it&#8217;s a Little knowledge that&#8217;s a dangeraous thing.  Thanks for keeping up with the fight.</p>
<p>E</p>
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		<title>By: rxc</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/07/evan-mills-response-to-my-critique-of-the-grid-outage-chart.html/comment-page-1#comment-5480</link>
		<dc:creator>rxc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 09:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1232#comment-5480</guid>
		<description>&quot;An additional matter is whether we think that a coal/nuclear power plant is more or less likely to be put out of action or damaged by a bad storm than a windpower plant.&quot;

A nuclear plant can be shutdown by a bad storm that knocks out the supporting electrical grid infrastructure.  Nuclear plants are not intended to operate without grid connections.  In fact, when hurricanes are predicted to pass over/near a nuclear plant, they are usually shutdown early to avoid a loss of the grid that would cause a transient in the plant.  The plants can physically withstand direct hits by hurricanes and tornadoes, and all of the debris that gets thrown up during those events, and there are documented instances of this happening.  The operators just sit there with the diesel generators running, and the plant staying in standby, till the event passes, and they can clean up, reconnect, and restart generation. There have recently been some concerns that the current state of the grid (overloaded) might make more nuclear plants susceptable to grid degradation from whatever source, including bad weather.

I don&#039;t know for certain, but I would think that wind turbines in hurricane areas should be able to withstand at least the smaller hurricanes.  A large nasty hurricane, on the other hand, would probably do some serious damage to an off-shore wind farm.  Tornadoes, however, are another matter, but I would think that the footprint of a tornado will not take out much wind capacity, because it is so small.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;An additional matter is whether we think that a coal/nuclear power plant is more or less likely to be put out of action or damaged by a bad storm than a windpower plant.&#8221;</p>
<p>A nuclear plant can be shutdown by a bad storm that knocks out the supporting electrical grid infrastructure.  Nuclear plants are not intended to operate without grid connections.  In fact, when hurricanes are predicted to pass over/near a nuclear plant, they are usually shutdown early to avoid a loss of the grid that would cause a transient in the plant.  The plants can physically withstand direct hits by hurricanes and tornadoes, and all of the debris that gets thrown up during those events, and there are documented instances of this happening.  The operators just sit there with the diesel generators running, and the plant staying in standby, till the event passes, and they can clean up, reconnect, and restart generation. There have recently been some concerns that the current state of the grid (overloaded) might make more nuclear plants susceptable to grid degradation from whatever source, including bad weather.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know for certain, but I would think that wind turbines in hurricane areas should be able to withstand at least the smaller hurricanes.  A large nasty hurricane, on the other hand, would probably do some serious damage to an off-shore wind farm.  Tornadoes, however, are another matter, but I would think that the footprint of a tornado will not take out much wind capacity, because it is so small.</p>
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