Comments on: This is a Plan? http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/this-is-a-plan.html Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:47:37 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Tony Edwards http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/this-is-a-plan.html/comment-page-1#comment-1675 Tony Edwards Wed, 14 May 2008 15:37:03 +0000 http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/this-is-a-plan.html #comment-1675 <p>Also worth considering is the sort of thing well demonstrated by the youtube item at<br /> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nSB1SdVHqQ<br /> Definite oops, and, of course, they would need to be sited far enough apart to prevent the flying bits from hitting another windmill. I have to wonder why the vertical axis type of windmill is not used more often. Sure, there are some engineering problems, but so are there with the horizontal axis models (see above link!). More to the point, the savonius type mill can accept wind from all directions without the need to track into the wind, consequently can be more efficient. But we're still back to windless times needing back-up from some other source.</p> Also worth considering is the sort of thing well demonstrated by the youtube item at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nSB1SdVHqQ
Definite oops, and, of course, they would need to be sited far enough apart to prevent the flying bits from hitting another windmill. I have to wonder why the vertical axis type of windmill is not used more often. Sure, there are some engineering problems, but so are there with the horizontal axis models (see above link!). More to the point, the savonius type mill can accept wind from all directions without the need to track into the wind, consequently can be more efficient. But we’re still back to windless times needing back-up from some other source.

]]> By: morganovich http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/this-is-a-plan.html/comment-page-1#comment-1674 morganovich Tue, 13 May 2008 17:57:11 +0000 http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/this-is-a-plan.html #comment-1674 <p>there are some massive holes in this plan.</p> <p>first, 300mw from 75,000 turbines implies 4mw/turbine. this is utterly unrealistic. the largest wind turbine ever constructed was 6mw (and had blade diameter of 126 meters and was 200 meters tall). imagine trying to site 75,000 of those. </p> <p>don't even get me started on where you would get the carbon fiber for the blades for all these wind mills. world production could not be ramped to 10% of this, and doing so would necessitate massive investment in acrylic precursor production that is a nasty, polluting industry.</p> <p>assuming through some miracle you could build and site all these turbines, you will get nothing like 6mw from them. average output for an efficient and well sited wind farm is about 20% of rated capacity. so, they are going to put out an average of 1.2mw, and will miss the forecast 4mw by 70%. oh, and good luck finding proper siting for this many massive windmills.</p> <p>worse, the output will be unpredictable. having 20% of your energy grid run on something like wind that can and will arbitrarily stop frequently is ludicrous. this amount of power cannot be stored. </p> <p>adding to the problem, wind tends to be highest at sunrise and sunset. this does not coincide with peak power, which tends to come in the early afternoon on a hot day as everyone runs their AC. wind tends to be slowest at such times. </p> <p>so you will still need nearly all of the baseline grid power stations you had before to cover the peak periods.</p> <p>trust me, if you think solar is expensive, try wind.</p> there are some massive holes in this plan.

first, 300mw from 75,000 turbines implies 4mw/turbine. this is utterly unrealistic. the largest wind turbine ever constructed was 6mw (and had blade diameter of 126 meters and was 200 meters tall). imagine trying to site 75,000 of those.

don’t even get me started on where you would get the carbon fiber for the blades for all these wind mills. world production could not be ramped to 10% of this, and doing so would necessitate massive investment in acrylic precursor production that is a nasty, polluting industry.

assuming through some miracle you could build and site all these turbines, you will get nothing like 6mw from them. average output for an efficient and well sited wind farm is about 20% of rated capacity. so, they are going to put out an average of 1.2mw, and will miss the forecast 4mw by 70%. oh, and good luck finding proper siting for this many massive windmills.

worse, the output will be unpredictable. having 20% of your energy grid run on something like wind that can and will arbitrarily stop frequently is ludicrous. this amount of power cannot be stored.

adding to the problem, wind tends to be highest at sunrise and sunset. this does not coincide with peak power, which tends to come in the early afternoon on a hot day as everyone runs their AC. wind tends to be slowest at such times.

so you will still need nearly all of the baseline grid power stations you had before to cover the peak periods.

trust me, if you think solar is expensive, try wind.

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