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	<title>Comments on: The Missing Heat</title>
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	<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html</link>
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		<title>By: Stevo</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html/comment-page-1#comment-1857</link>
		<dc:creator>Stevo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html#comment-1857</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;dnaxy,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The process is a little more messy than the AGW propagandists have claimed.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;First, we don&#039;t know the exact total irradiance. It varies quite markedly over the year because the Earth&#039;s orbit is elliptical, and over the years and decades because the sun is also bobbing about in its dance with the heavier planets. The several different satellites come up with slightly different answers - they&#039;re all within a few Watts of one another, but it&#039;s a tricky measurement to calibrate. Because the radiation emitted and reflected from the Earth is not uniform in all directions. Because when you sum the time series, the errors add too. (If you&#039;re lucky you just get a random walk - if not, a systematic error will accumulate.) And because the actual difference between input and output would be tiny even if AGW claims are correct. For any body in equilibrium the input and output balance, so it is only the rate of change you might detect. This is a number measured in fractions of a degree per decade.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s a measurement &lt;i&gt;far&lt;/i&gt; beyond current capabilities. But yes, in theory it would settle the argument.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dnaxy,</p>
<p>The process is a little more messy than the AGW propagandists have claimed.</p>
<p>First, we don&#8217;t know the exact total irradiance. It varies quite markedly over the year because the Earth&#8217;s orbit is elliptical, and over the years and decades because the sun is also bobbing about in its dance with the heavier planets. The several different satellites come up with slightly different answers &#8211; they&#8217;re all within a few Watts of one another, but it&#8217;s a tricky measurement to calibrate. Because the radiation emitted and reflected from the Earth is not uniform in all directions. Because when you sum the time series, the errors add too. (If you&#8217;re lucky you just get a random walk &#8211; if not, a systematic error will accumulate.) And because the actual difference between input and output would be tiny even if AGW claims are correct. For any body in equilibrium the input and output balance, so it is only the rate of change you might detect. This is a number measured in fractions of a degree per decade.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a measurement <i>far</i> beyond current capabilities. But yes, in theory it would settle the argument.</p>
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		<title>By: dnaxy</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html/comment-page-1#comment-1856</link>
		<dc:creator>dnaxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 02:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html#comment-1856</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t see why we have to argue about climate warming (or cooling.) We know the exact total irradiance (I recall something like 1176 watts/sq. meter) coming in and I would think we can measure the total energy leaving the earth in all frequencies, day and night. I think one of these is, if I recall correctly, the Bond albedo, but we would have to measure the night emission also. If the amount of energy coming in is greater than the total amount leaving, then, it seems to me, the earth is warming. And vice versa. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Of course there are a few miniscule effects: the energy of cosmic rays and meteorites passing through the atmosphere, heat coming up from the earth&#039;s core via lava or plain ground heat, evaporative cooling as from loss of hydrogen and helium--the lighter atoms--from the top of the atmosphere, but wouldn&#039;t these be almost zero? &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Now, maybe people don&#039;t talk about this direct approach because it is too difficult, I don&#039;t know, It seems that it would take at least four satellites arranged in a tetrahedron to fully look down upon the earth and catch both day and night sides. Maybe the instrumentation is too difficult and they don&#039;t really know how to measure all frequencies. And, of course, it could not be a one time measurement as the sun is irregular and varies about .1% as I recall. And, probably the weather and clouds would, likewise, cause variance in the total emissivity. So the answers would be time series integrals. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But, wouldn&#039;t it theoretically put an end to all the speculation?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;  &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see why we have to argue about climate warming (or cooling.) We know the exact total irradiance (I recall something like 1176 watts/sq. meter) coming in and I would think we can measure the total energy leaving the earth in all frequencies, day and night. I think one of these is, if I recall correctly, the Bond albedo, but we would have to measure the night emission also. If the amount of energy coming in is greater than the total amount leaving, then, it seems to me, the earth is warming. And vice versa. </p>
<p>Of course there are a few miniscule effects: the energy of cosmic rays and meteorites passing through the atmosphere, heat coming up from the earth&#8217;s core via lava or plain ground heat, evaporative cooling as from loss of hydrogen and helium&#8211;the lighter atoms&#8211;from the top of the atmosphere, but wouldn&#8217;t these be almost zero? </p>
<p>Now, maybe people don&#8217;t talk about this direct approach because it is too difficult, I don&#8217;t know, It seems that it would take at least four satellites arranged in a tetrahedron to fully look down upon the earth and catch both day and night sides. Maybe the instrumentation is too difficult and they don&#8217;t really know how to measure all frequencies. And, of course, it could not be a one time measurement as the sun is irregular and varies about .1% as I recall. And, probably the weather and clouds would, likewise, cause variance in the total emissivity. So the answers would be time series integrals. </p>
<p>But, wouldn&#8217;t it theoretically put an end to all the speculation?</p></p>
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		<title>By: Luis Dias</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html/comment-page-1#comment-1855</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Dias</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html#comment-1855</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Adirian, and who the fuck says that this &quot;data&quot; is of &quot;higher quality than most of what we see&quot;? A curious lone blogger? A lost avatar commenter on a skeptic&#039;s blog? Why should I take seriously anyone that just arrives the scene claiming that &lt;i&gt;&quot;I have the best data in the world, and everyone else is just plain wrong, because I just know and you should trust me &#039;cause I&#039;m also a skeptic, blink blink!&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ve seen too many &quot;scientists&quot; making such bogus claims, eternal motion machines and plain wrong science to recognize a rat when I see one.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But perhaps you just like the kool-aid. Drink it at your intellectual peril. I&#039;ve once read a study that says that drinking kool aid produces brain cancer. IT must be right, it&#039;s SCIENCE, haven&#039;t you heard?&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adirian, and who the fuck says that this &#8220;data&#8221; is of &#8220;higher quality than most of what we see&#8221;? A curious lone blogger? A lost avatar commenter on a skeptic&#8217;s blog? Why should I take seriously anyone that just arrives the scene claiming that <i>&#8220;I have the best data in the world, and everyone else is just plain wrong, because I just know and you should trust me &#8217;cause I&#8217;m also a skeptic, blink blink!&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen too many &#8220;scientists&#8221; making such bogus claims, eternal motion machines and plain wrong science to recognize a rat when I see one.</p>
<p>But perhaps you just like the kool-aid. Drink it at your intellectual peril. I&#8217;ve once read a study that says that drinking kool aid produces brain cancer. IT must be right, it&#8217;s SCIENCE, haven&#8217;t you heard?</p>
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		<title>By: mace77</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html/comment-page-1#comment-1854</link>
		<dc:creator>mace77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 02:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html#comment-1854</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Current AGW outcomes &lt;br /&gt;
- about 4% more see ice now than the mean. (National Snow and Ice Data Center sea ice Viewer)&lt;br /&gt;
- Lower temperatures since 1998 per the British Met Hadley Center&lt;br /&gt;
- Lower ocean temps since 2003 per this discussion (ARGOS)&lt;br /&gt;
- A stable trend of N Hemisphere snow cover looking at Dec to Feb data since 1966. The most snow cover in the N Hemisphere in Jan 2008 since 1966.  Rutgers Center.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Doesn&#039;t this add up to less heat in the ocean and less heat in the atmosphere?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As a laymen after looking at the data for three weeks i am fairly appalled that the White House Climate Report and Union of Concerned Scientists are declaring crisis and declaring it absolutely.  This absolute &#039;concensus&#039; looks more like corrupted absolute power.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I appreciate the challenging looks here.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Are we seeing the unraveling of the scientific story of the century?&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Current AGW outcomes <br />
- about 4% more see ice now than the mean. (National Snow and Ice Data Center sea ice Viewer)<br />
- Lower temperatures since 1998 per the British Met Hadley Center<br />
- Lower ocean temps since 2003 per this discussion (ARGOS)<br />
- A stable trend of N Hemisphere snow cover looking at Dec to Feb data since 1966. The most snow cover in the N Hemisphere in Jan 2008 since 1966.  Rutgers Center.</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t this add up to less heat in the ocean and less heat in the atmosphere?</p>
<p>As a laymen after looking at the data for three weeks i am fairly appalled that the White House Climate Report and Union of Concerned Scientists are declaring crisis and declaring it absolutely.  This absolute &#8216;concensus&#8217; looks more like corrupted absolute power.</p>
<p>I appreciate the challenging looks here.</p>
<p>Are we seeing the unraveling of the scientific story of the century?</p>
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		<title>By: Adirian</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html/comment-page-1#comment-1853</link>
		<dc:creator>Adirian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 18:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html#comment-1853</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Luis Dias - Actually, while his conclusion wasn&#039;t quite right (A four year trend is just that - a four year trend, and, like a forty year trend, not necessarily to be taken seriously), his general point is pretty good; that this data looks to be of significantly higher quality than most of what we see.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;To say anything meaningful here, somebody would have to take a look at his methodologies, which are much more important than having error bands when it comes to getting a right answer.  (Although they&#039;re both quite important; if you don&#039;t have error bands, a 99% match still isn&#039;t good enough, because you&#039;ve claimed to be precisely correct.)  Where the measurements were taken, what time of day, with what equipment, at what depths - what &quot;corrections&quot; took place once he was done.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luis Dias &#8211; Actually, while his conclusion wasn&#8217;t quite right (A four year trend is just that &#8211; a four year trend, and, like a forty year trend, not necessarily to be taken seriously), his general point is pretty good; that this data looks to be of significantly higher quality than most of what we see.</p>
<p>To say anything meaningful here, somebody would have to take a look at his methodologies, which are much more important than having error bands when it comes to getting a right answer.  (Although they&#8217;re both quite important; if you don&#8217;t have error bands, a 99% match still isn&#8217;t good enough, because you&#8217;ve claimed to be precisely correct.)  Where the measurements were taken, what time of day, with what equipment, at what depths &#8211; what &#8220;corrections&#8221; took place once he was done.</p>
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		<title>By: Mesa Econoguy</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html/comment-page-1#comment-1852</link>
		<dc:creator>Mesa Econoguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 17:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Wait, is that a chart with error bars? How refreshing.&lt;br /&gt;
Posted by: joshv&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I thought it was open-hi-low-close.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;How about a temp chart with Bollinger bands?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;(4 years may not a trend make, but neither does bogus proxy measurement over 650,000* years…..)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;*Please, enough with the proxy crap.  It’s (mostly) crap.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Wait, is that a chart with error bars? How refreshing.<br />
Posted by: joshv</i></p>
<p>I thought it was open-hi-low-close.</p>
<p>How about a temp chart with Bollinger bands?</p>
<p>(4 years may not a trend make, but neither does bogus proxy measurement over 650,000* years…..)</p>
<p>*Please, enough with the proxy crap.  It’s (mostly) crap.</p>
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		<title>By: Kum Dollison</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html/comment-page-1#comment-1851</link>
		<dc:creator>Kum Dollison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 00:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html#comment-1851</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Anybody else, here, notice what looks like a one year time lag?&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anybody else, here, notice what looks like a one year time lag?</p>
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		<title>By: Luis Dias</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html/comment-page-1#comment-1850</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Dias</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 00:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html#comment-1850</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Perhaps the latter commenter is trying to make a confusing case linking long term readings with uncertainties while claiming clear certainties and trends in a recent four year span with incredible noise in it. Perhaps he is confusing his own personal common sense with authorative scientific voice. Perhaps he is just another fool hanging around in the internets.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the latter commenter is trying to make a confusing case linking long term readings with uncertainties while claiming clear certainties and trends in a recent four year span with incredible noise in it. Perhaps he is confusing his own personal common sense with authorative scientific voice. Perhaps he is just another fool hanging around in the internets.</p>
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		<title>By: Al Fin</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html/comment-page-1#comment-1849</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Fin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 23:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sea temperature readings to these depths, of this quality, is unprecedented.  We really only have a relatively few years of good quality climate data.  All the models until now have been based on crap.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Perhaps the commenters above are confusing ocean heat content with atmospheric temperature readings.  Water has much higher heat content than air, and is much more resistant to change.  Four years of reliable data on ocean heat is significant in terms of global heat content trends.  And what you see is no trend except perhaps slight cooling.  That is sehr significant.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sea temperature readings to these depths, of this quality, is unprecedented.  We really only have a relatively few years of good quality climate data.  All the models until now have been based on crap.</p>
<p>Perhaps the commenters above are confusing ocean heat content with atmospheric temperature readings.  Water has much higher heat content than air, and is much more resistant to change.  Four years of reliable data on ocean heat is significant in terms of global heat content trends.  And what you see is no trend except perhaps slight cooling.  That is sehr significant.</p>
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		<title>By: joshv</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html/comment-page-1#comment-1848</link>
		<dc:creator>joshv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 18:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/the-missing-hea.html#comment-1848</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wait, is that a chart with error bars?  How refreshing.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait, is that a chart with error bars?  How refreshing.</p>
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