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	<title>Comments on: Politically Uncorrect Guide To Carbon Abatement</title>
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	<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/politically-unc.html</link>
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		<title>By: dicentra</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/politically-unc.html/comment-page-1#comment-1811</link>
		<dc:creator>dicentra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 05:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/politically-unc.html #comment-1811</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;They became global warming believers not because they were compelled by the science...&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;They were probably compelled by the easy, compelling narrative:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;1. Our industrial activities put CO2 into the atmosphere.&lt;br /&gt;
2. CO2 traps heat.&lt;br /&gt;
3. The more CO2 in the atmosphere, the more heat it traps.&lt;br /&gt;
4. The more heat you trap, the more CO2 escapes from the oceans.&lt;br /&gt;
5. And look! All these icecaps are melting, including these handy CGI glaciers I stole!&lt;br /&gt;
6. We&#039;re All Gonna Die!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s an easy narrative to understand, whereas the true story of the climate--and CO2 and information cascades and the perfidy of some scientists and how doomsday sells better than Nothing To See Here (especially in the world of grant proposals)--is not easy to comprehend, especially when the information is hard to come by.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s also hard to explain, because you have to sit there and describe so many different elements that contribute to the problem, and it&#039;s also not anywhere near as interesting as We&#039;re All Gonna Die.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They became global warming believers not because they were compelled by the science&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>They were probably compelled by the easy, compelling narrative:</p>
<p>1. Our industrial activities put CO2 into the atmosphere.<br />
2. CO2 traps heat.<br />
3. The more CO2 in the atmosphere, the more heat it traps.<br />
4. The more heat you trap, the more CO2 escapes from the oceans.<br />
5. And look! All these icecaps are melting, including these handy CGI glaciers I stole!<br />
6. We&#8217;re All Gonna Die!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an easy narrative to understand, whereas the true story of the climate&#8211;and CO2 and information cascades and the perfidy of some scientists and how doomsday sells better than Nothing To See Here (especially in the world of grant proposals)&#8211;is not easy to comprehend, especially when the information is hard to come by.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also hard to explain, because you have to sit there and describe so many different elements that contribute to the problem, and it&#8217;s also not anywhere near as interesting as We&#8217;re All Gonna Die.</p>
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		<title>By: Mhaze</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/politically-unc.html/comment-page-1#comment-1810</link>
		<dc:creator>Mhaze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 03:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/politically-unc.html #comment-1810</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;The fourth point is one that I have made myself, that if you really care about carbon sequestration, what you want to do is cut down old growth trees, which are sequestering little incremental new carbon, bury them deep&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Bury them? Nonsense, just build cities with those trees.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The fourth point is one that I have made myself, that if you really care about carbon sequestration, what you want to do is cut down old growth trees, which are sequestering little incremental new carbon, bury them deep&#8221;</p>
<p>Bury them? Nonsense, just build cities with those trees.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/politically-unc.html/comment-page-1#comment-1809</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 02:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/politically-unc.html #comment-1809</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;People exhale CO2 so I wonder what ideas global warming believers have to reduce that.  However I have read that the government is trying to find ways to reduce CO2 from natural sources, like breathing.  &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People exhale CO2 so I wonder what ideas global warming believers have to reduce that.  However I have read that the government is trying to find ways to reduce CO2 from natural sources, like breathing.  </p>
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		<title>By: JimBeaux</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/politically-unc.html/comment-page-1#comment-1808</link>
		<dc:creator>JimBeaux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 15:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/politically-unc.html #comment-1808</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I read the Wired article. From what I recall, their point was that ultimately it takes far fewer resources to drive a 10 year old used Toyota - or a Geo Metro - than to manufacture a brand new Prius. According to their web site http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/05/the-ultimate-pr.html&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;hybrids get great gas mileage but it takes 113 million BTUs of energy to make a Toyota Prius. Because there are about 113,000 BTUs of energy in a gallon of gasoline, the Prius has consumed the equivalent of 1,000 gallons of gasoline before it reaches the showroom. Think of it as a carbon debt -- one you won&#039;t pay off until the Prius has turned over 46,000 miles or so.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There&#039;s an easy way to avoid that debt -- buy a used car. The debt has already been paid. But not just any used car will do.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It has to be something fuel efficient. Like, say, a 1998 Toyota Tercel that gets 27 mpg city / 35 mpg highway miles. The Prius will have to go 100,000 miles to achieve the same carbon savings as the 10-year-old Tercel. Get behind the wheel of a 1994 Geo Metro XFi, which matches the Prius&#039; 46 mpg, and the Prius would never close the carbon gap, Power writes.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the Wired article. From what I recall, their point was that ultimately it takes far fewer resources to drive a 10 year old used Toyota &#8211; or a Geo Metro &#8211; than to manufacture a brand new Prius. According to their web site <a href="http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/05/the-ultimate-pr.html" rel="nofollow">http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/05/the-ultimate-pr.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;hybrids get great gas mileage but it takes 113 million BTUs of energy to make a Toyota Prius. Because there are about 113,000 BTUs of energy in a gallon of gasoline, the Prius has consumed the equivalent of 1,000 gallons of gasoline before it reaches the showroom. Think of it as a carbon debt &#8212; one you won&#8217;t pay off until the Prius has turned over 46,000 miles or so.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s an easy way to avoid that debt &#8212; buy a used car. The debt has already been paid. But not just any used car will do.</p>
<p>It has to be something fuel efficient. Like, say, a 1998 Toyota Tercel that gets 27 mpg city / 35 mpg highway miles. The Prius will have to go 100,000 miles to achieve the same carbon savings as the 10-year-old Tercel. Get behind the wheel of a 1994 Geo Metro XFi, which matches the Prius&#8217; 46 mpg, and the Prius would never close the carbon gap, Power writes.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/politically-unc.html/comment-page-1#comment-1807</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 12:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/politically-unc.html #comment-1807</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If you want to spend less on gas, a BMW 520d and a Polo BlueMotion both have better real-world fuel economy than a Prius (in Europe, anyway).&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to spend less on gas, a BMW 520d and a Polo BlueMotion both have better real-world fuel economy than a Prius (in Europe, anyway).</p>
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		<title>By: Corky Boyd</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/politically-unc.html/comment-page-1#comment-1806</link>
		<dc:creator>Corky Boyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 22:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/politically-unc.html #comment-1806</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Somehow it&#039;s expected for conserviatives, like me, to find things wrong with the Prius.  My problem with Prius owners is they are trying to make statements of political and ecological superiority.  But I leased one this past year, not to make a statement, but to reduce the amount of money I spend with Hugo Chavez.  It didn&#039;t save me money, the Prius costs me over $100/month more than the Trailblazer I replaced and almost the same as the Cadillac SRX that I lease also. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But the feeling from putting less than 10 gallons in the tank after 500 miles makes it all worthwhile.  I am sure there is a reason WIRED says a used car is better, but I can&#039;t figure out why.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Try one!&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somehow it&#8217;s expected for conserviatives, like me, to find things wrong with the Prius.  My problem with Prius owners is they are trying to make statements of political and ecological superiority.  But I leased one this past year, not to make a statement, but to reduce the amount of money I spend with Hugo Chavez.  It didn&#8217;t save me money, the Prius costs me over $100/month more than the Trailblazer I replaced and almost the same as the Cadillac SRX that I lease also. </p>
<p>But the feeling from putting less than 10 gallons in the tank after 500 miles makes it all worthwhile.  I am sure there is a reason WIRED says a used car is better, but I can&#8217;t figure out why.</p>
<p>Try one!</p>
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		<title>By: Corky Boyd</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/politically-unc.html/comment-page-1#comment-1805</link>
		<dc:creator>Corky Boyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 22:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/politically-unc.html #comment-1805</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Despite the prevailing thought, mature steady state forests are carbon neutral.  As trees die they go through a fungus cycle where their hydrocarbons break down into CO2 (aerobic decomposition) or methane (anaerobic decomposition).  Dying trees are replaced by new ones where more carbon is sequestered through photsynthesis. But the carbon content per acre stays the same. Carbon from wood will stay sequestered if kept in a dry insect free state, such as furniture and frame houses.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If you want to freak the ecofreak out, suggest we cut down the redwoods to save the planet.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite the prevailing thought, mature steady state forests are carbon neutral.  As trees die they go through a fungus cycle where their hydrocarbons break down into CO2 (aerobic decomposition) or methane (anaerobic decomposition).  Dying trees are replaced by new ones where more carbon is sequestered through photsynthesis. But the carbon content per acre stays the same. Carbon from wood will stay sequestered if kept in a dry insect free state, such as furniture and frame houses.</p>
<p>If you want to freak the ecofreak out, suggest we cut down the redwoods to save the planet.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Christner</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/politically-unc.html/comment-page-1#comment-1804</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Christner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 21:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/politically-unc.html #comment-1804</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There&#039;s a lot more people can do! The average human exhales &lt;a href=&quot;http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE1DA1639F937A2575BC0A966958260&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;166,440 liters&lt;/a&gt; of CO2 annually. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Alex Sherman, a geographer with the Population Reference Bureau in Washington, a private, nonprofit educational and research organization, suggested that the carbon dioxide exhaled by the 5.3 billion people on earth might have a considerable effect on the total amount of the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If all 5.3 billion of us cut our wasteful breathing in half, just imagine how much we&#039;d be doing for Gaia!&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a lot more people can do! The average human exhales <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE1DA1639F937A2575BC0A966958260" rel="nofollow">166,440 liters</a> of CO2 annually. </p>
<blockquote><p>Alex Sherman, a geographer with the Population Reference Bureau in Washington, a private, nonprofit educational and research organization, suggested that the carbon dioxide exhaled by the 5.3 billion people on earth might have a considerable effect on the total amount of the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.</p></blockquote>
<p>If all 5.3 billion of us cut our wasteful breathing in half, just imagine how much we&#8217;d be doing for Gaia!</p>
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		<title>By: jep, Kansas USA</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/politically-unc.html/comment-page-1#comment-1803</link>
		<dc:creator>jep, Kansas USA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 18:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/politically-unc.html #comment-1803</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hybrid cars have always been a marketing gimmick. Yes, the vehicles may use less gas, but it takes quite a lot more energy to build a hybrid instead of a normal car. We&#039;ve probably all seen the analysis of a Hummer being more economical than a hybrid when all the energy required for production is accounted for.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Has anybody seen an econo-hybrid? Why is that hybrid cars come fully-loaded, with all the extras? If saving the planet is really the point, shouldn&#039;t hybrid cars be stripped down to the bare essentials with no A/C, a basic radio, manual transmission, manual windows, etc., etc.?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;BTW: It&#039;s been scientifically proven that hybrid cars cause excess smug, which is bad for people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hybrid cars have always been a marketing gimmick. Yes, the vehicles may use less gas, but it takes quite a lot more energy to build a hybrid instead of a normal car. We&#8217;ve probably all seen the analysis of a Hummer being more economical than a hybrid when all the energy required for production is accounted for.</p>
<p>Has anybody seen an econo-hybrid? Why is that hybrid cars come fully-loaded, with all the extras? If saving the planet is really the point, shouldn&#8217;t hybrid cars be stripped down to the bare essentials with no A/C, a basic radio, manual transmission, manual windows, etc., etc.?</p>
<p>BTW: It&#8217;s been scientifically proven that hybrid cars cause excess smug, which is bad for people.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Hadley</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/05/politically-unc.html/comment-page-1#comment-1802</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Hadley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 16:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/05/politically-unc.html #comment-1802</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Your fourth point about cutting down old forests and burying the wood so that the CO2 is not released as it rots makes even more sense if before burying the wood you convert it into pulp and then into paper. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Every time that someone re-cycles paper they make it less profitable for another person to plant a tree which could take CO2 out of the atmosphere while it grows before it is chopped down as a mature tree it is changed into paper and finally buried in landfill. Recycling paper also creates nasty toxic waste as the paper is chemically cleaned and the ink removed, whereas making paper from wood pulp is relatively kind to the environment. &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your fourth point about cutting down old forests and burying the wood so that the CO2 is not released as it rots makes even more sense if before burying the wood you convert it into pulp and then into paper. </p>
<p>Every time that someone re-cycles paper they make it less profitable for another person to plant a tree which could take CO2 out of the atmosphere while it grows before it is chopped down as a mature tree it is changed into paper and finally buried in landfill. Recycling paper also creates nasty toxic waste as the paper is chemically cleaned and the ink removed, whereas making paper from wood pulp is relatively kind to the environment. </p>
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