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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on Satelite Measurement</title>
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	<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/01/thoughts-on-sat.html</link>
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		<title>By: Kriek Jooste</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/01/thoughts-on-sat.html/comment-page-1#comment-389</link>
		<dc:creator>Kriek Jooste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;The only good reason is because it doesn&#039;t cover at least 40-100 years.  Unfortunately by the time that we have 40-50 years of satellite measurements we won&#039;t be getting much rewards for proving the alarmists wrong, we would have moved on to other issues.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What is remarkable with this is that for climate change short term satellite measurements are not preferred over a mishmash of flawed surface measurements, while for ozone depletion most policy decisions were based on a very short sample of satellite measurements while surface UV levels didn&#039;t support the alarmist view that we&#039;re going to die of cancer.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only good reason is because it doesn&#8217;t cover at least 40-100 years.  Unfortunately by the time that we have 40-50 years of satellite measurements we won&#8217;t be getting much rewards for proving the alarmists wrong, we would have moved on to other issues.</p>
<p>What is remarkable with this is that for climate change short term satellite measurements are not preferred over a mishmash of flawed surface measurements, while for ozone depletion most policy decisions were based on a very short sample of satellite measurements while surface UV levels didn&#8217;t support the alarmist view that we&#8217;re going to die of cancer.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/01/thoughts-on-sat.html/comment-page-1#comment-388</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/01/thoughts-on-sat.html#comment-388</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Raven, he gives the details in his post. Putting them on the graph would be needless clutter.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raven, he gives the details in his post. Putting them on the graph would be needless clutter.</p>
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		<title>By: morganovich</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/01/thoughts-on-sat.html/comment-page-1#comment-387</link>
		<dc:creator>morganovich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:29:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/01/thoughts-on-sat.html#comment-387</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;the only even loosely plausible reason i have heard is that the surface record goes back further.  30 years is not a particularly long time to establish a trend in something with as long a cycle as climate.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;this is still not a good argument for using it to measure the change currently occurring however.  but it does mean that if we use surface data pre 1979 and satellite afterwards, it is not a purely apples to apples comparison.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;but that does not seem to be a good reason to prefer a flawed and incomplete record to the satellite record which not only uses better methodology and has a wider footprint, but has been verified by an independent source (weather balloon data) see ball etc on comparing MSU lower trop data to noaa weather balloons.  they are statistically indistinguishable.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;i suspect another reason (though it is certainly not a valid one) for preferring the surface data is that it began, in a widespread fashion owing to the spread of thermometers, in the late 1800&#039;s as the world was still emerging from the little ice age, one of the coldest period in the last 10,000 years.  given climate&#039;s tendency to revert to the mean, any data set anchored at that time will have a built in tendency to show warming.  this is essentially like taking the temperature in february as baseline and then commenting &quot;my, it certainly is much warmer most of the time.&quot;...&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the only even loosely plausible reason i have heard is that the surface record goes back further.  30 years is not a particularly long time to establish a trend in something with as long a cycle as climate.  </p>
<p>this is still not a good argument for using it to measure the change currently occurring however.  but it does mean that if we use surface data pre 1979 and satellite afterwards, it is not a purely apples to apples comparison.</p>
<p>but that does not seem to be a good reason to prefer a flawed and incomplete record to the satellite record which not only uses better methodology and has a wider footprint, but has been verified by an independent source (weather balloon data) see ball etc on comparing MSU lower trop data to noaa weather balloons.  they are statistically indistinguishable.</p>
<p>i suspect another reason (though it is certainly not a valid one) for preferring the surface data is that it began, in a widespread fashion owing to the spread of thermometers, in the late 1800&#8242;s as the world was still emerging from the little ice age, one of the coldest period in the last 10,000 years.  given climate&#8217;s tendency to revert to the mean, any data set anchored at that time will have a built in tendency to show warming.  this is essentially like taking the temperature in february as baseline and then commenting &#8220;my, it certainly is much warmer most of the time.&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Raven</title>
		<link>http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2008/01/thoughts-on-sat.html/comment-page-1#comment-386</link>
		<dc:creator>Raven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2008/01/thoughts-on-sat.html#comment-386</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I noticed you were able to post on Pieke&#039;s blog - I can&#039;t sign in.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I wanted to point out that Pieke is comparing the IR4 predictions to the actuals from 2000. IR4 was released in 2007 so one would expect a good match between the models and the recent past. What we need to do is watch for divergance from 2007 on.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This means Pieke&#039;s blog gives an extremely misleading representation of the accuracy of the models. He should clearly indicate on his graphs when the model results were published.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I noticed you were able to post on Pieke&#8217;s blog &#8211; I can&#8217;t sign in.</p>
<p><a href="http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/" rel="nofollow">http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/</a></p>
<p>I wanted to point out that Pieke is comparing the IR4 predictions to the actuals from 2000. IR4 was released in 2007 so one would expect a good match between the models and the recent past. What we need to do is watch for divergance from 2007 on.</p>
<p>This means Pieke&#8217;s blog gives an extremely misleading representation of the accuracy of the models. He should clearly indicate on his graphs when the model results were published.</p>
<p></p>
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