Comments on: Back to the 1800s http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2007/11/back-to-the-180.html Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:47:37 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: DWPittelli http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2007/11/back-to-the-180.html/comment-page-1#comment-213 DWPittelli Mon, 26 Nov 2007 02:42:03 +0000 http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2007/11/back-to-the-180.html #comment-213 <p>I agree that things would really have to go to hell economically before significant numbers of people would voluntarily use horses again for utilitarian transport. Even if gasoline production were to be cut by 90%, or personal cars abandoned for whatever reason, I think we would see the use of more jitney buses, many of them electric, well before we got to the point where horses looked attractive again.</p> I agree that things would really have to go to hell economically before significant numbers of people would voluntarily use horses again for utilitarian transport. Even if gasoline production were to be cut by 90%, or personal cars abandoned for whatever reason, I think we would see the use of more jitney buses, many of them electric, well before we got to the point where horses looked attractive again.

]]> By: markm http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2007/11/back-to-the-180.html/comment-page-1#comment-212 markm Sun, 25 Nov 2007 00:35:34 +0000 http://climate-movie.com/wordpress/2007/11/back-to-the-180.html #comment-212 <p>And a few million horses in a city would create an emissions problem beyond imagining...except it wouldn't actually happen that way. It just isn't practical to haul the immense amounts of horse feed required to provide a horse for every urban family, so the cost of keeping horses winds up beyond the means of most people. An urban society without motorized transport is a society where most city-dwellers cannot afford any transport but their own feet (and trains, if available - but with trains, not only are you tied to the train schedule, but for most trips your feet have to cover the first and last mile.) It's a society where, except for a privileged elite, your choices and opportunities are severely limited by geography. The city may have wonderful libraries, parks, museums, and theaters, but for anything but an all-day trip you are limited to whatever's within walking distance or accessible without too many train changes. Similarly for job opportunities, schools, etc.</p> <p>As for rural life... Even in the 1940's, the rural Iowa county where my father grew up had only one high school, and very few roads that remained passable to busses or other automobiles when it rained. His family lived quite too far out for riding a horse to school in the county seat to be practical, even if his father hadn't needed the horse for farm work. So the little one or two room schools scattered every few miles attempted to teach in grades 1-8 everything a man would need (reading, writing, and arithmetic) for the business of running a farm, and most kids quit school after graduation from 8th grade. (Some quit when they reached 16 and still hadn't completed 8th grade - social promotion didn't exist, and so the schools could maintain higher standards than you'll find today.) Dad was lucky; his parents had cousins who ran a restaurant in town, so he had a place to stay while going to high school, and only a few hours of work every night to pay for it... And he had the drive to use the GI bill a few years and go on to college, but it wouldn't have been possible without the chance to go to high school first.</p> And a few million horses in a city would create an emissions problem beyond imagining…except it wouldn’t actually happen that way. It just isn’t practical to haul the immense amounts of horse feed required to provide a horse for every urban family, so the cost of keeping horses winds up beyond the means of most people. An urban society without motorized transport is a society where most city-dwellers cannot afford any transport but their own feet (and trains, if available – but with trains, not only are you tied to the train schedule, but for most trips your feet have to cover the first and last mile.) It’s a society where, except for a privileged elite, your choices and opportunities are severely limited by geography. The city may have wonderful libraries, parks, museums, and theaters, but for anything but an all-day trip you are limited to whatever’s within walking distance or accessible without too many train changes. Similarly for job opportunities, schools, etc.

As for rural life… Even in the 1940’s, the rural Iowa county where my father grew up had only one high school, and very few roads that remained passable to busses or other automobiles when it rained. His family lived quite too far out for riding a horse to school in the county seat to be practical, even if his father hadn’t needed the horse for farm work. So the little one or two room schools scattered every few miles attempted to teach in grades 1-8 everything a man would need (reading, writing, and arithmetic) for the business of running a farm, and most kids quit school after graduation from 8th grade. (Some quit when they reached 16 and still hadn’t completed 8th grade – social promotion didn’t exist, and so the schools could maintain higher standards than you’ll find today.) Dad was lucky; his parents had cousins who ran a restaurant in town, so he had a place to stay while going to high school, and only a few hours of work every night to pay for it… And he had the drive to use the GI bill a few years and go on to college, but it wouldn’t have been possible without the chance to go to high school first.

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